Multi-Dimensioinality of God

Me ~ We talked once before about the multiverse. I want to talk now a little about the multidimensional aspect of God. I know that a lot of Christians and people who are not Christians have a problem with or wonder how Jesus Christ forgave sin once and for all at the cross which means in every multiverse.  For the lay person, can you elaborate on that?

John ~ Imagine drawing a line from one end of paper to another this represents time as we experience it. In order from a to b to c stretching from end to another end in a single direction.a series of moments each moment is a discreet existence of time. Now imagine a being that can exist outside of time and within time imagine that Christ could exist in one single moment eternally. Or experience eternity in one single moment so that each person whoever lived could be atoned. He could suffer the punishment for every person that ever lived... He Christ could experience that moment eternally on the cross for every person that ever lived because of His hyper-dimensional nature.

Me ~ Ok, you mean let's imagine drawing a line from one end of a sheet of paper to another and then crossing that line with another from one end of the paper to the other...making a plus a 'cross'. Therefore, Christ's act of sacrifice would essentially be eternal in that moment of time, suffer the eternal punishment for every person that ever lived in one moment of time due to His hyper-dimensional nature.


John ~ Yes!

Me ~ I love the story in Mark when Jesus fed the 4,000. Many people can't imagine this event as something that could actually happen. Given what you said about Christ being hyper-dimensional, then I suppose it was possible.

John ~ In the TV show Star Trek, it was postulated that man could turn energy into matter. We can already turn matter into energy, what nuclear fission is. If we could reverse the process we could turn any energy into any material that we wanted instantly. Clearly God has that capability. He is the master of energy and matter which are really two sides of the same coin.; both are simply different means of expressing the same program which means  how to take an idea and make it real either as energy or matter. Jesus demonstrated God's ability to this when he fed the four thousand so that we would know that there is nothing that God cannot do.

Me ~ Given that, what is this fallen world we experience, some call it the 'lower' sphere and God is in the higher sphere. Some and let's just call them 'new age' Christians think that this world fell to Satan and he controls it, it is in the process of decay because he "Satan" is Error and caused error to come into the program. What do you say?

John ~  I would say it is a synthesis of those. We know from science that there are at least 11 higher dimensions. some of these could be time dimensions. We also have the potential for a multi-universe reality. Where every possibility exists any God that could create such a reality exists such a higher sphere of existence it is impossible to understand Him but only that which he wants us to understand and makes availability to us. the world we live in s a part of or fragment of reality a lower level of reality just as a two dimensional universe. The existence of entropy or decay in our universe is evident never to be eternal but to erode and disappear. as though God knew that evil would exist and placed it in this kind of universe so that it would never become eternal and be defeated. In much the same way death prevent evil people from living forever and thus causing a great deal less harm than if they would if they lived long lives.
Jesus dimension the higher dimensionality of God at the Transfiguration and at the Resurrection when he appeared in the upper room without entering. As well as his ability to walk on water and to go from one place to another as He did at the Sea of Galilee a couple of times.

Me ~ So now what?

John ~ So now we wait for the Lord to deal with those that have chosen to live in error and have selected darkness as their preferred existence and to resurrect those of us who have followed Him and bring us into the same glorious life He has and to restore the earth and the rest of the universe to its original glory.

Overcoming the Flesh

Me ~ This week I wrote on Godly Woman about overcoming the flesh. I said that marriage was the means for two to become spiritually one through consummation of the flesh. There is a lot of discussion out there about the flesh, not just skin/bodies but the world of material things also stands for flesh. Today, people seem to over indulge in the flesh and thus people are really unable to overcome it. What do you think and is it absolutely necessary for us to overcome the flesh and what for?

John ~ Yes, Jesus said that eternal life belongs to those that are overcomers. This is how we mature as Christians and prepare to meet the Lord for our eternal lives.

Me~ I agree. What do you think about marriage as the means for a married couple to overcome the flesh?

John ~ I agree with Paul when he suggested that some people who do have a strong need for sex they  should marry the opposite gender so that the enemy will not take advantage of them because of the weakness of their flesh and fleshy desire. 

Me ~ Ok, but why marriage at all? I mean couldn't people who have a strong desire for sex just have sex with anyone who is of the opposite sex in that way, they overcome that desire for it and can focus on the spirit.

John ~ That is assuming that sexual activity is merely an activity like eating or breathing. Sexual relationships have a deeper spiritual reality. On one level it represents the relationship that the Trinity has with itself; that the Church has with Christ. On another level it is meant to provide a stable environment to raise children. Providing them with the most effective means of social programming. So, marriage, is not merely a biological need but a spiritual one aimed at satisfying God's will, not ours. We read in the Bible that God created one man and one woman together and that they together should be fruitful. It was not until sin entered the world that we began to see men with multiple wives, prostitution, homosexuality and the deconstruction of the family leading to divorce all of which reflect spiritual decay.

And, as you wrote in your Godly Woman blog, multiple partners is indulging in the flesh not overcoming it, not consuming it with the aim of spiritual awakening

Evil and the MultiVerse

Me ~ The last time we talked, we discussed the problem of evil. Recently, there has been circulating again the idea of living in a multiverse. We also just read about a discovery of a small sphere in the atmosphere that may or may not be alien. Some scientists are suggesting that it too is somehow related to a multidimensional reality as in a multiverse. If that is the case, how does Christianity and the problem of evil which we discussed previously from a Christian perspective fit in to a multiverse?

John ~ Actually, the sphere is not associated with the multiverse. There is imagined that the sphere seeded life here. Could that fit into a multiverse?... no. I don't see the connection and thus it is a separate subject. Besides, this sphere has not been properly researched and we don't know what it is or they are (if there are more) and there is no peer review. While, the subject of the multiverse does have good minds behind it and has been peer reviewed and is an intriguing idea. In fact, it is fascinating as it explains away paradoxes such as how does free will and determinism coexist.  From a Christian viewpoint, the multiverse is an explanation for how God's omnipotence does not contradict our free will. And, in fact, uses probability to create the most optimal outcome for the universe and everything in it.

Me ~  How does the problem of evil fit with the multiverse?

John ~ Evil simply corruption by another name. As long as you have beings that have the ability to make decisions on their own, corruption is always present. Multiverse is a means by which God's omnipotence does not conflict with created beings free will. It allows the Creator to guide the universe toward the most optimal 's to guide the multiverse which is the infinite probability toward the most optimal conclusion.

For example, if you wanted the perfect outcome of any event or even a relationship given free will you could not control the choice of the other individual. But you would have the ability to select the best outcome to guide them toward that end. Because, as omnipresent Creator, you know what the best end is. This way you would be able to arrive at the conclusion and relationship which is best for both parities without taking away or diminishing the choices of either party.

The multiverse is ultimately a soup of probabilities all occurring simultaneously based on all the living beings that can make a choice. Evil or corruption is able to be utilized to create the most optimal conditions while at the same time allowing bad choices to exit but for a limited amount of time until finally eliminated all together.

The Problem of Evil is Everybody's Problem

Me ~ The problem of evil is always brought up by those who don't believe in God and want to or atheists who believe and don't want to.  Why does evil exist and is it everybody's problem?

John ~ Yes on both counts. Evil exists because we let it in. Adam and Eve were tempted and they ate of the seed of evil; Genesis 2: 9 They ate of... "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.". Because of that, we live in a sinful 'evil' world. The only way out is death. God informed them 'Adam and Eve' that if they ate of that tree they would surely die - Gen. 3:3. The Lord said, "I will punish the world for its evil" Isaiah 13:11.

Me ~ People today think that evil is just the bad that man does and that man only needs the law to keep him from committing evil. Is evil just that which is really bad?

John ~If evil was just that which is really bad, then whose 'bad' are we talking about?

Me ~ You have a point. If evil were just what is thought of as 'really bad', then whose bad. What is bad for me may or may not be bad for you. Sorry. I mean evil as the absolute in terms of universal meaning of  the opposite of perfectly good.

John ~ So, what is perfectly good? In order to discuss the problem of evil at all, you have to accept that there is an absoulte perfectly good and its perfect opposite is evil.

Me ~ Right!

John ~Then you have your answer. Evil exists because we say that we know what is good and not only just 'good' but that there is also something which we understand as the best good - perfection.  Therefore, if we know or have an idea of what is perfectly good, we also know its opposite. This is what happened. Adam and Eve were perfectly good and thus they could not know evil. Once they received the knowledge of both, they could not be both because they were created with free will. With that in mind, we could also say that because we are now fallen human beings, we are not perfect and thus are inherently evil - making the problem of evil everyone's. 

Me ~Could man not have sinned and never known evil?

John ~ Perhaps... But, given that God gave man free choice/will, He knew that man would eventually make a bad 'not perfect choice' and thus sin and fall from perfection coming into this situation where we are now. Yet, God had a plan to reboot the system, His Son. By accepting Jesus Christ as our Savior, we are truly Saved and can leave this program to re enter into the Kingdom of God, into His perfection.

The problem of evil is much bigger... why does God allow it? People ask if God is really good why does he allow evil. Well, we make choices. When Adam and Eve did not trust God, they fell into the condition/nature of evil. They decided that they wanted to know evil, and by knowing it, they also made the decision to do evil. They did the opposite of what God told them not to do. Hence, they took on the condition/nature of evil. Being righteous is that you are perfectly good and the opposite of that is evil.

If you have not been born again of the spirit you will be forever in the condition/nature of evil.  There are no shades of gray. There are no gradients of good and evil. You cannot be more or less evil or righteous. Even a little evil is perfect evil and only a little good is not perfectly good. You are either perfectly righteous or perfectly evil. You stated above in order to resolve the problem of evil in our nature, a condition that we chose, He sent His Son. Those washed by the blood of Christ are made perfectly righteous in God's eyes, we have been given a gift so that we cannot boast that we saved ourselves.

Remember this, choice is the key to understanding God's love for us. We had to have free will. God wanted us to freely choose to love Him! Evil was something that He knew would happen and it did. He had a plan. Death is a blessing for us. It prevents the world from being overtaken by evil. 

The Flesh ~ Corruption of Spirit!

Me ~ Why do we have so much sin of the flesh?

John ~ We have given up the spirit for the material ~ the Flesh. Everything that is not from the spirit is flesh; and, the flesh lies to us. The more we indulge in it, the more we are lied to.

Me ~ When we sinned, and I am going back to Adam and Eve, did we die then to the spirit and become flesh?

John ~ We became the opposite of the spirit ~ flesh. We lost our glorified bodies.

Me ~ Is there a way forward for the spirit?

John ~ Yes, there is death of the flesh. For Christians that means absent from the body, present with the Lord.

Me ~ Given today's popular and academic culture, not many people will like the sound of that. There is the moment toward trans-humanism. What do you think about that?

John ~ Well, it certainly follows what I was saying about the flesh lying to us. In our western culture, we have rejected the spirit in favor of the flesh. Trans-humanism is the attempt to perfect humanity by material means by mixing biology and technology so that we can become God like. in the words of the trans-humanists.

Me ~ What does that mean for man's salvation?

John ~ That means he/she is lost. The flesh is corrupt. Therefore, anything that comes from the mind is corrupt and therefore our technology is corrupt. All we will do is to multiply our corruption and guarantee a permanent state of damnation ~ the film "LUCY" is an illustration of man's desire to become immortal suggesting that everything we are is ~ the brain. This is a false notion. The brain is not us, it is flesh; and as I just stated, all flesh here in this world is corrupt.

Unless, we as Christians realize that salvation is only through God's plan which is to be spirit led, not flesh led. Take a look around, sin of the flesh is everywhere and it includes the mind as there are those conducting experiments to change man into a woman, and the other way around. We are cloning organs, mixing DNA. Man is succumbing to the lies of the flesh and He will ultimately perish in its pursuit. Salvation comes to those who seek the spirit.

In the last days, "... men will seek death, but will not find it, they will long to die, but death will elude them." Rev 9: 6-7

Why is Recognizing and Understanding what Sin is so important for the Christian?

Me ~  Why is recognizing sin so important for the Christian?

John ~ Because without sin we cannot ever get to the love of God. It doe snot mean that sin is good, it means that sin as recognized as such in our selves leads us the the incredible mercy and love of our Creator; He gave His own life to relieve us of it.

Me ~ So often today we don't hear the discussion about sin. Do you think that is because of culture? I mean American culture of course.

John ~ Absolutely, it is all part of the culture in we which we are not to judge anyone in their bad behavior - their life choice are their own and we today have to respect their choices even if they are destructive.

Me ~ This week, we heard the President speak at the prayer breakfast. He said like he has many times before "we should be tolerant of others". As you pointed above, our culture is one that does not want to 'judge which in fact keeps us from calling out sinful behavior. Is, it important to call out sinful behavior?

John ~ It is important to call out sinful behavior not preaching tolerance of sinful behavior. Today, for me the word 'tolerance' as it used by popular culture asks us to affirm sinful behavior. The disciplines of Christ were to call out the sinful behavior of other Christians. Everybody judges... this is a sinful world, we judge because we too are caught up in it. Nonetheless, we are to be salt and light which includes judging and being an example.

Me ~ What if sin is allowed, is that so bad? What if it is part of God's plan and thus our sinning is just part of that plan. 

John ~ Sin is like a virus. If it continues to be accepted as normal behavior it will take over like a 'bad' computer virus does. It will destroy mankind because that is what sin intends to do. Praise the Lord that God sent His son to deliver us from the sin of death by dieing on the cross. So, we too must die to this sinful world.

Me ~  Some 'modern' Christians do not acknowledge sin and that Jesus Christ was the upgrade/the patched in compatibility program necessary for us so that we can be saved and not permanently deleted... put into the lake of fire. How can we take this good news to other religions who not realize the problem of sin?

John ~ In that case, you need the Holy Spirit to move in their hearts as this is the only way that they will see it in their mind, feel it in their hearts. It is an enemy stronghold that can only be destroyed by the Holy Spirit. This requires a great deal of prayer ahead of time.

Me ~ In a previous post, we talked about heaven. Given our discussion here about sin, I want to ask you if people in heaven would remember their own and other people's sin? 

John ~ No. Because if they did they would, in my opinion, not be in heaven. No matter what sins we commit or other people commit here on earth in this corrupt world, if we find ourselves in heaven that means that we have declared Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior and that means that we declared being sorry for our sin and forgiven... why remember then would it be important for anyone to remember their sin, there is no need of it.  In fact, it would be burden likely causing sin to rise up again just by being aware of sin would cause an unnecessary hierarchy to form in heaven leading to the sin of righteousness and pride leading to corruption.

If we think of reality as a computer programmer who created a  program and then had it get hacked ... get a virus and become corrupted, we could imagine his first reaction would be to try and save the program. If the programmer is able to SAVE the program and the program accepts being Saved through new commands, then it will be Saved and the virus sent to the vault. Thus, the corrupt information 'virus' could not longer be able to pass on its corrupt information as it would not exist in the Saved program.What  is fascinating in this illustration about sin/corruption of a program is that in a computer program, all viruses go into the virus vault; they are saved too but in a different way... that being no longer to corrupt the original order of operation. I think that God has revealed to us through computer operations, who He is and His love for His creation.

Me ~ Why didn't God just eliminate sin from the beginning?

John ~ By giving us free will, God knew that we would eventually choose 'sin'. To eliminate sin would eliminate our ability to choose. 

Me ~ Does that mean God had already the plan which was to send His Son to deliver us from sin which He knew would happen due to our God given free will... or, to use your computer analogy, He already had a plan to save the program, He already had the patch?

John ~ Yes. But, remember that we have to choose to accept that patch (Jesus Christ); as by doing so, removes the corruption from us. Essentially, forcing the virus into the vault.

Me ~ I suppose that the Creator's foreknowledge of sin had/has meaning for eternity...

John ~ Yes, because He wants programs/ beings like Himself that would know good and evil and always choose good, always be perfect, like Him.

Created in the Image of God

Me ~ In Genesis, we can read that man was created in the image of God. Is there anything that we can find in our post-modern reality given today's quantum technology which seems to be pointing to the potential holographic nature of the universe?

John ~ These discoveries are helping us to redefine the nature of what is real. Since reality is that which we are perceiving... what is real to us, then it matters a great deal in how we see it....our  place in the universe. The fact that we are recreating technology that can easily explain the nature of the universe leads us to believe that man has been given the ability think like his creator.

Me ~ So, let me ask you then which technology is the best example of what that?

John ~ Creating virtual worlds using computers I think probably best illustrates our reality more than any other technology. We are creating simulations, though primitive compared to our universe, are in many ways very similar to how physics is describing our realty.

Me ~ Since you now mention physics, and in my first question, I suggest that quantum technology based on quantum physics points to a holographic nature of the universe, which in my opinion, also suggests a multidimensional aspect of it; would you say then that God multidimensional and also the creator of it?


John ~  Yes, I would.

Me ~  People are born, live and die and we can wonder what's is all about. If there is a multidimensional quality to our universe in relationship with the creator. then what is the 'His' purpose of this given reality?

John ~ Its a combination of training and testing mortals for godhood. Before anybody says that is blasphemy let me remind you that Jesus said "Are you not Gods?" In other words, God wants us to be like His Son in every way. So, while a God became a man, in doing so, we humans become like Him ... a god. So, this universe is designed to sort out those who choose that destiny and train them.

Me ~ If we are all created in His image, then what has to be chosen?

John ~ Adam and Eve were created in God's image. After they turned their back on God, their progeny were spiritually dead. Since we are descended from them, we have to ability to chose right and wrong, we have creativity, self awareness, imagination, these are all God like qualities. However, being spiritually dead, we are no longer fully in God's image. God's Son came to change that. And to give those who truly wish for it, the opportunity to be restored spiritually. This then, is what is meant by being born again into the image of God and it is those who are born again that are being trained into becoming like God.

Me ~ In our training to become like God, does that mean we can think that anything is possible as long as we believe in God and that alone gives us the power to succeed in whatever we do?

John ~ No. It does not. God gives us a great deal of freedom, but that freedom can lead one astray by assuming that one's desires are equal with God's desires. While one  We have to line up our desires with His, and put His desires first. Jesus never acted on His own, he did the will of His Father, and he constantly said so. The problem is unlike Jesus we do not live in a perfect relationship with God. So it takes years of training and practice to be able to know to hear God's voice and know what to do and when to do it.  God knows this and when we are new Christians, He makes it easier for us to hear his desires but as we mature as Christians we are expected to go deeper and to hear His voice more clearly. Following his voice leads us  to know his will is in every situation.

The original question was returning to the question, as we learn to hear God's voice and led by His spirit rather than by our fleshy desires,k we learn to differentiate between the two just as Christ did. It is wrong to assume even being born again, that your own desire equals God's desire.

However, God knows the desires of our heart and if they are pure, it is a good bet that He has placed them there. However, getting to the place in our life where our desires are met and are realized often is a circuitous and difficult path. Because, God is more concerned about our character development than about our desires, because in the end, our desires with proper care development will be the same as His... we will become what we were - created in His image.